600 yards is assassination in my books, not a hunt. I think looking at that gun you've overthought things, but hey, to each their own. Keep in mind though that Pinnell and Talifson shot as many big brown bears as anyone i suspect and a lot more than most with their battered ol' basic Winchester Model 70's in .375 H&H, which are heavy guns, yes. But then neither of them suffered from the kind of gear fetish so common with hunters today, which a person is wise to keep in mind when looking for advice. Theirs is the calibre i carry all the active bear season living surrounded by grizzlies at my home. I'm with folks on a heavy gun. I haul that 9lb custom Mauser over hill and dale for months of the year and i'm now 60. I barely notice the weight now, but i do notice the sense of confidence i get from no other gun. As one pundit said, carry a ten-pound gun and use it as incentive to lose ten pounds off your waist.
Atavist- good comments and I like your screen name. Atavism is a great word that I rarely hear. I first encountered it in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, legendary book
I enjoyed the book, and movie was a great laugh. It's interesting how in the unprecedentedly cushy times of the past century so many men out of indeed their sense of loathing for the ghastly morass of nothingness our culture had become (Vegas being perhaps the penultimate expression of this) chose to poison themselves as a way of life. And got away with it for years! In the old days you'd drink a bit too much homebrew if you were likewise feeling reckless, pass-out outside the boma, and wake up without the face the hyaena had stopped by and eaten. Even those human hyaenas the Hell's Angels were light on Thompson.
“A big part of Greg and his guides’ jobs is tracking wounded bears through dense brush, to bring clients the result they’ve paid for, even after bad shots.”
Not to mention doing the right thing for the animal.
Interesting article. Never hunted anything bigger than black bears, but in very thick cover, I prefer my Henry 45/70 to something with a longer barrel or large scope. Your hunting is obviously in very different conditions with a very different game animal.
Yeah, I failed to mention that this setup is very much for wide open spaces out west and up north, in situations where you have time to set up a shot. For off hand shooting, or dense brush, you're going to want something smaller, lighter, and faster handling. I've also built a 6.5 Creedmoor into sort of a hybrid between this and an ultralight rifle for whitetail, stands, and quicker shots, plus converted that .338 Win Mag into sort of a brush gun for stalking (when in grizz territory here in MT). I also have a suppressor waiting at the gun store. Will detail all of that in near future.
The book "The Grizzley Bear" was published in 1909 by William Wright. By his estimate, he shot about 100 brown bears in the Selkirks and north Cascades. They were pretty much hunted to local extinction. He narrates how he saw the error of his ways, and started hunting them with a camera. Considering the technology of the time he got some great photos. I get hunting deer - they are plentiful and some estimates say that motor vehicles kill as many deer as hunters. But I don't get hunting apex predators. Or elephants or rhinos for that matter. I'm not sure I'm going to continue my subscription if this is how things are going to roll...
The TL;DR is that in order to exist in our human-dominated world, wildlife needs to produce an economic benefit. This is one of those things that sounds incredibly harsh when you compare it to a Disney movie, or all the other fictions we tell ourselves about nature. But all you need to do is look at what a successful program it is. Over the last century or so, even as human populations and industrial/extraction/agriculture operations have exploded, wildlife populations on this continent, where we have this unique system, have either held steady or increased in number. That is very much not true in most of the rest of the world.
I've spent time in Alaska. The oil industry and some mining certainly presents potential harm to fisheries and marine mammals. Brown bears and other apex predators are only hunted by ego driven macho men. What the hell is TL;DR
I've shot 100s of ground squirrels that were threatening our vineyard, only because the county was spreading 1080. When that was outlawed, the natural predators came back, and my dad and I didn't need to shoot. Hunting apex predators like mountain lions, wolves and Brown bears is macho bullshit. Go look in the mirror Wes. You paid a lot of money to take the life of a brown bear minding its own business. You are a Real Man. Then light a Marlboro.
And just to reiterate this point clearly: the purpose of hunting within the North American Model for Conservation is to protect and improve the health of any hunted species, as well as the overall habitat and biodiversity.
I very much realize that this is not the common perception of hunting. But I am dedicated to changing that. It's also my hope that my readers understand me to be a kind, intelligent human who loves animals above pretty much all else (my wife being the primary exception).
Wes, I appreciate your well reasoned info and responses. Your reiteration above I think is important info and also perhaps a relevant post script to your main article where the concept of a professional grizzly bear killer known as "The Grizzinator" definitely reeks of a lack of respect for the creature, and reading his website does nothing to indicate otherwise.
I just reread your Outside grizz hunting article and it does seem to do a good job of covering all the key points and objections although I think I recall some equally well reasoned strong arguments against your premise that later followed its publication, I don't know if you rebutted them or perhaps felt it unnecessary.
On a different note, I hope you read this comment but wonder if you will see it because personally I find the Substack concept a bit unwieldy and confusing. For example I found notification of your latest reiterative comment only today which is 7d after you posted it. Maybe it's just me not navigating the site properly.
Yeah, that "rebuttal" piece was a hack job commissioned by a former colleague who had it in for me for reasons I never discovered. It was based in emotion, not fact. No need rebut such stuff.
No need for insults, we can discuss stuff here like civilized people.
Tl;Dr is internet speak for "too long, didn't read." It's a fun way to say "in summary."
Bear hunting, like all other hunting in North America is done in benefit of the species in question. Obviously there's fewer bears than there are deer, and we all cuddled teddies as kids, but it still works the same. The money bear hunts cost (ours was a very nice gift from my very nice father in law) worked to prevent logging on an entire island that's home to 600+ bears. 6 bears come off that island a year, and because they're the biggest ones, that also helps foster genetic diversity within that fairly small population. All that is science based.
But I wrote an entire article explaining all that. This one's about guns. What do you shoot?
I share your instincts and am mostly a whitetail hunter. Keep in mind when considering the elephants and rhinos, the majority of those shot - hundreds of thousands, millions? - were ordered shot by game departments to make room for the exploding human populations demanding land, and to get rid of the ones menacing the humans that had claimed it. Still a problem today, with Africa one of only two geographic areas where human population continues to escalate and the elephants that remain still run out of room and feed, decimate habitats and still have to be shot. Not on account of hunters, but on account of farmers and pastoralists. (And then of course there's the poachers that are the other side of what happens when there's too many dogs for the size of the bone.) It's a ghastly situation, but not one driven at its root by hunters. The hunters are the reason there are any rhinos or elephants left at all. All that said, i understand how you feel.
Excellent article. Indeed, it was some of the earlier white hunters who established some of the vast parks and game reserves that have kept the exploding native population from turning the continent into one huge goat paddock. I'm all for it. Had it been on my radar at 19 i might have gone to Africa and trained to be a PH. Though the golden days of that profession were over by WWII. Nonetheless, you must do the best with the hand you're dealt. What a life those earliest white hunters had, Black, who came from money yet slept in someone else's rundown stone barn with his gear strewen about him when he wasn't out hunting, Cunninghame who mentored Black, Bell who went back to the Scotch highlands disgusted by the sight of the first automobile in his hunting territory. My kinda folks. Which isn't to say i wouldn't have felt some serious pangs with each elephant. With any luck Africa will soon start to follow the trend over the rest of the world (all but 'oceana') in declining birth rates. Mind-you, this is coming with general decline. The wealth is leaving our system, entropy is taking hold. God know what this spells for conservation schemes dependent on affluence.
A third of a mile shooting limit? Definitely doesn't seem restictive
600 yards is assassination in my books, not a hunt. I think looking at that gun you've overthought things, but hey, to each their own. Keep in mind though that Pinnell and Talifson shot as many big brown bears as anyone i suspect and a lot more than most with their battered ol' basic Winchester Model 70's in .375 H&H, which are heavy guns, yes. But then neither of them suffered from the kind of gear fetish so common with hunters today, which a person is wise to keep in mind when looking for advice. Theirs is the calibre i carry all the active bear season living surrounded by grizzlies at my home. I'm with folks on a heavy gun. I haul that 9lb custom Mauser over hill and dale for months of the year and i'm now 60. I barely notice the weight now, but i do notice the sense of confidence i get from no other gun. As one pundit said, carry a ten-pound gun and use it as incentive to lose ten pounds off your waist.
Atavist- good comments and I like your screen name. Atavism is a great word that I rarely hear. I first encountered it in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, legendary book
I enjoyed the book, and movie was a great laugh. It's interesting how in the unprecedentedly cushy times of the past century so many men out of indeed their sense of loathing for the ghastly morass of nothingness our culture had become (Vegas being perhaps the penultimate expression of this) chose to poison themselves as a way of life. And got away with it for years! In the old days you'd drink a bit too much homebrew if you were likewise feeling reckless, pass-out outside the boma, and wake up without the face the hyaena had stopped by and eaten. Even those human hyaenas the Hell's Angels were light on Thompson.
“A big part of Greg and his guides’ jobs is tracking wounded bears through dense brush, to bring clients the result they’ve paid for, even after bad shots.”
Not to mention doing the right thing for the animal.
Interesting article. Never hunted anything bigger than black bears, but in very thick cover, I prefer my Henry 45/70 to something with a longer barrel or large scope. Your hunting is obviously in very different conditions with a very different game animal.
Enjoying your writing and opinions.
Yeah, I failed to mention that this setup is very much for wide open spaces out west and up north, in situations where you have time to set up a shot. For off hand shooting, or dense brush, you're going to want something smaller, lighter, and faster handling. I've also built a 6.5 Creedmoor into sort of a hybrid between this and an ultralight rifle for whitetail, stands, and quicker shots, plus converted that .338 Win Mag into sort of a brush gun for stalking (when in grizz territory here in MT). I also have a suppressor waiting at the gun store. Will detail all of that in near future.
I've never (yet) hunted bears but I think having a bomb proof heavy rifle would be a solid choice.
The book "The Grizzley Bear" was published in 1909 by William Wright. By his estimate, he shot about 100 brown bears in the Selkirks and north Cascades. They were pretty much hunted to local extinction. He narrates how he saw the error of his ways, and started hunting them with a camera. Considering the technology of the time he got some great photos. I get hunting deer - they are plentiful and some estimates say that motor vehicles kill as many deer as hunters. But I don't get hunting apex predators. Or elephants or rhinos for that matter. I'm not sure I'm going to continue my subscription if this is how things are going to roll...
I explained how conservation applies to bears here: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/environment/why-trophy-hunting-benefits-conservation/
The TL;DR is that in order to exist in our human-dominated world, wildlife needs to produce an economic benefit. This is one of those things that sounds incredibly harsh when you compare it to a Disney movie, or all the other fictions we tell ourselves about nature. But all you need to do is look at what a successful program it is. Over the last century or so, even as human populations and industrial/extraction/agriculture operations have exploded, wildlife populations on this continent, where we have this unique system, have either held steady or increased in number. That is very much not true in most of the rest of the world.
I've spent time in Alaska. The oil industry and some mining certainly presents potential harm to fisheries and marine mammals. Brown bears and other apex predators are only hunted by ego driven macho men. What the hell is TL;DR
I've shot 100s of ground squirrels that were threatening our vineyard, only because the county was spreading 1080. When that was outlawed, the natural predators came back, and my dad and I didn't need to shoot. Hunting apex predators like mountain lions, wolves and Brown bears is macho bullshit. Go look in the mirror Wes. You paid a lot of money to take the life of a brown bear minding its own business. You are a Real Man. Then light a Marlboro.
And just to reiterate this point clearly: the purpose of hunting within the North American Model for Conservation is to protect and improve the health of any hunted species, as well as the overall habitat and biodiversity.
I very much realize that this is not the common perception of hunting. But I am dedicated to changing that. It's also my hope that my readers understand me to be a kind, intelligent human who loves animals above pretty much all else (my wife being the primary exception).
Wes, I appreciate your well reasoned info and responses. Your reiteration above I think is important info and also perhaps a relevant post script to your main article where the concept of a professional grizzly bear killer known as "The Grizzinator" definitely reeks of a lack of respect for the creature, and reading his website does nothing to indicate otherwise.
I just reread your Outside grizz hunting article and it does seem to do a good job of covering all the key points and objections although I think I recall some equally well reasoned strong arguments against your premise that later followed its publication, I don't know if you rebutted them or perhaps felt it unnecessary.
On a different note, I hope you read this comment but wonder if you will see it because personally I find the Substack concept a bit unwieldy and confusing. For example I found notification of your latest reiterative comment only today which is 7d after you posted it. Maybe it's just me not navigating the site properly.
Thanks, and carry on.
Yeah, that "rebuttal" piece was a hack job commissioned by a former colleague who had it in for me for reasons I never discovered. It was based in emotion, not fact. No need rebut such stuff.
Wow interesting info and thank you for getting back to me on that, much appreciated.
No need for insults, we can discuss stuff here like civilized people.
Tl;Dr is internet speak for "too long, didn't read." It's a fun way to say "in summary."
Bear hunting, like all other hunting in North America is done in benefit of the species in question. Obviously there's fewer bears than there are deer, and we all cuddled teddies as kids, but it still works the same. The money bear hunts cost (ours was a very nice gift from my very nice father in law) worked to prevent logging on an entire island that's home to 600+ bears. 6 bears come off that island a year, and because they're the biggest ones, that also helps foster genetic diversity within that fairly small population. All that is science based.
But I wrote an entire article explaining all that. This one's about guns. What do you shoot?
I share your instincts and am mostly a whitetail hunter. Keep in mind when considering the elephants and rhinos, the majority of those shot - hundreds of thousands, millions? - were ordered shot by game departments to make room for the exploding human populations demanding land, and to get rid of the ones menacing the humans that had claimed it. Still a problem today, with Africa one of only two geographic areas where human population continues to escalate and the elephants that remain still run out of room and feed, decimate habitats and still have to be shot. Not on account of hunters, but on account of farmers and pastoralists. (And then of course there's the poachers that are the other side of what happens when there's too many dogs for the size of the bone.) It's a ghastly situation, but not one driven at its root by hunters. The hunters are the reason there are any rhinos or elephants left at all. All that said, i understand how you feel.
Here's a good explanation of how elephant hunting works: https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/opinion/why-you-shouldnt-be-outraged-elephant-hunting/
Excellent article. Indeed, it was some of the earlier white hunters who established some of the vast parks and game reserves that have kept the exploding native population from turning the continent into one huge goat paddock. I'm all for it. Had it been on my radar at 19 i might have gone to Africa and trained to be a PH. Though the golden days of that profession were over by WWII. Nonetheless, you must do the best with the hand you're dealt. What a life those earliest white hunters had, Black, who came from money yet slept in someone else's rundown stone barn with his gear strewen about him when he wasn't out hunting, Cunninghame who mentored Black, Bell who went back to the Scotch highlands disgusted by the sight of the first automobile in his hunting territory. My kinda folks. Which isn't to say i wouldn't have felt some serious pangs with each elephant. With any luck Africa will soon start to follow the trend over the rest of the world (all but 'oceana') in declining birth rates. Mind-you, this is coming with general decline. The wealth is leaving our system, entropy is taking hold. God know what this spells for conservation schemes dependent on affluence.
er, *restrictive